Rules on players mid week.

mags
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:39 am

Rules on players mid week.

Postby mags » Sat May 19, 2018 2:17 pm

As Gildersome second team manager, I have suffered at not knowing the rules fully.

One Saturday game and also a mid week game. We were short of players. The Saturday game we had a stag doo on.

I then filled the gaps in one game with a player who played for the first. In the other game with 2 players who regular play in firsts.

As a club we were fined £50 and my team deducted 3 points.

I understand that they don’t want teams playing firsts in a seconds game etc. But when no other options, what am I supposed to do? Play ringers

What’s more concerning is at the start of the season we played a team who had 4/5 first team players in and beat us easy 4-0. But that was a rare win for them all year. And I watched the same players play our firsts the week before.

My young team has gone from 3rd to 5th.

Both games the lads helped me out we lost. And I droooed none of my usual players.

Is the solution sign tonnes on??? Play someone under a different name.
neville
Posts: 5512
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:04 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby neville » Mon May 21, 2018 11:00 pm

Time needed to expand on a subject that has been closer to ruinimg relationships more than any other rule as each club presents its own view on the topic raised?
adamfox09011988
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 11:00 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby adamfox09011988 » Tue May 22, 2018 5:19 am

I don't quite understand the issue?
Were your players signed on? If so then surely no points should be deducted. This is the whole reason why teams have two teams so that if any of the teams are short then they can help out?
neville
Posts: 5512
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:04 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby neville » Tue May 22, 2018 6:11 pm

Not time to add much but the rule comes into its own towards the end of the season. It is to do with the number of games a player can make before he is barred from playing for a lower team at his club.

"(N) A player who has played for a team in the Premier or ChampionshipDivisions 17 times or =more in all competitions shall not in that season be eligible to play in a lower Division except by permission of the Management Committee. "

A difficult rule toimplement.
neville
Posts: 5512
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:04 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby neville » Tue May 22, 2018 7:20 pm

Can you post the explanation below on the thread about using 1st team players:

Rule 8(N) states: a player who has played for a team in the Premier or Championship Divisions 17?times or more in all competitions, shall not in that season be eligible to play in a lower division except by permission of the management committee.

This is the rule that Gildersome reserves fell foul of.

Thanks

Richard Asher

League Secretary
neville
Posts: 5512
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:04 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby neville » Tue May 22, 2018 7:22 pm

Just to add to previous e mail - the rule is designed to stop teams using players from higher teams in key games later in the season which may affect promotion/relegation issues.

Richard Asher

League Secretary
DeclanP93
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby DeclanP93 » Tue May 22, 2018 9:17 pm

My stance is that each team should have a set squad and once they play for one team in a club, they then can't play in another team in that club. I know it's not a popular opinion and one that's not shared among my peers.

The alternatives is to unfortunately, have a situation like this, where Mags is being honest and got a fine for selecting players he didn't know were illegible. Whereas other teams would have played those players and put them under a players name who plays in that team.

No matter what the outcome, it's going to anger someone at the end of the day and is a very difficult thing to police. So i guess we just carry on and accept it unfortunately.
CalverleyUtd
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby CalverleyUtd » Wed May 23, 2018 4:31 am

Yes Dec it’s not an opinion that I agree with. With your way you may as well just be two separate clubs. For a league to run that way it would show a lack of ambition right through from the league committee, through clubs, managers and players. Where’s the incentive for a second team and second team players to do well? If you introduced a new team next year and they won division five but you had another year finishing mid-table in division 4 your second team would just end up stuck in division five as the FA stipulates you can’t have two teams from the same club in the same division.

I think the rule is pretty straight forward as all you need to do is check full time and see how many games your players have turned out in. We had a similar situation to Gildersome this year with multiple players missing for various reasons one week but we didn’t have the luxury of no first team game so had to concede the fixture got a fine and points deduction, same outcome but for different reasons.

Although limiting it to just the clubs in the Premier Division and Championship does seem a bit harsh, for example Leeds City III’s could have needed a win on the last day of the season to gain promotion from division 4 and have loads of players missing on a stag do. They could have flooded their team with not only players from their division one team but their west Yorkshire teams should they wish to and there is no control over that as long as the players are registered. I’m not saying they would as they were the best team our reserves came up against this season but it’s just another scenario that could come into play where one club risks a fine for either playing an ineligible player or being unable to field a team just because of what division or league their additional teams compete in and where another could potentially field a team even stronger than their usual one.
sgt_wilko
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:53 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby sgt_wilko » Wed May 23, 2018 2:32 pm

neville wrote:Just to add to previous e mail - the rule is designed to stop teams using players from higher teams in key games later in the season which may affect promotion/relegation issues.

Richard Asher

League Secretary


Personally I think the Rule needs looking at again, even though we fully accept the volume of mid-week games especially this Season has lead to Clubs having to draft in players from their other teams. But it makes a bit of a mockery of the Rule when for example you have 4 Division One Players and 4 West Yorkshire League Division 1 players, so 8 in total, playing in the same team in a Division 5 match. All were Registered Players for that Club so no Rules broken as I see it, but a bit of a farce.

Also the number of games in the rule 17 even in top two Divisions - most teams are barely playing that many more games 22? Perhaps that needs to be set at a lower 15/16 games before permission is sought?

Probably too late for a rule change this year I suppose.
bigade
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:51 pm

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby bigade » Thu May 24, 2018 7:52 pm

The west yorkshire players would also i'm assuming NOT even class as players who had played 17 or more for a higher team . .
mags
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:39 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby mags » Sat May 26, 2018 7:43 am

I think 2/3 should be allowed to play as it’s a squad.

However I didn’t know that I could have applied to he league so if the situation arises again then I can contact them. Even if needs be on match day.

I would never drop a regular player for a first team player for a crucial game as in the long run, I feel you will struggle to get them to play for you again.

Dec is right. I could have played them under a different name. Save on the fine twice and points deduction. But I didn’t. It didn’t affect the outcome of the match as we lost both.

Lads booked a stag end of april as they didn’t envisage the bad weather we had. Luckily It was Cup finals day and I could get one team. I even asked the league to give us a game rather than midweek as knew I could fulfill it.

It won’t affect if we go up or not. But just means more fund raising to cover the fines etc.
neville
Posts: 5512
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:04 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby neville » Sun May 27, 2018 10:06 pm

I show below a message sent via email from our League Secretary Richard Asher tohelp claifiy the situation.

"Just a further note to try and help the debate on the forum:

All the rules are either imposed on us by the FA via the Standard Code of Rules or are voted for by member Clubs at the AGM. Any Club can propose a rule change to the General Secretary by 28th February each year. If ratified by our sanctioning authority, they will be taken forward to the AGM and decided on by the CLUBS. (eg a proposal that players from teams in a higher step league should not be allowed to play in YAL games was defeated last year)."

Richard
sgt_wilko
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:53 am

Re: Rules on players mid week.

Postby sgt_wilko » Tue May 29, 2018 7:21 pm

I will have a think and draft a proposal for the next year then

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